I decided recently that I was sick of the online dating sites. I don't like the type of people that are on these sites, and I definitely don't like initiating contact at all. Truth be told, I don't know what to say when I initiate contact. I also hate the fact that people have these rules for how to contact people, it fees so restricted and it does not really help show who I am. I may comment on something I read on their profile and ask a question about it, but almost 100% of the time I get ignored. Might be because of something written on my profile, or maybe how I made the message sound, or maybe it was how I look in my photos. Truth is I don't want to think about it anymore. Besides, I have not been happy with any dates I have had on any dating sites. Maybe I am not fit for dating, or I don't have anything to offer that another person wants. I am not the typical alpha male that women desire and have no desire to be one. I just want to be me, but with the ability to read social cues and body language better. In no way do I consider myself a doormat and therefore don't allow others to treat me as such.
I have noticed from the wrongplanet.net forums that other Aspies and Autistic people, but I am guessing it is mostly the Aspies, have voiced their frustrations about their inability to have a relationship with the opposite gender. I have also noticed it is mostly men, but there are the occasional women in there voicing their frustrations. I have done my best not to complain openly about my dating frustration on the forums, but more or less try and help the younger lads because they still have hope for the future. People around my age and older just don't seem to care as much anymore as some seem to accept the idea of being alone.
We have all read about what women really want. It seems to be broken down into the following things:
1. Women want what they perceive to be normal, happy, healthy and fit. Each women is different so the standards of what these traits are may be different. It seems that very few consider a person with Asperger's Syndrome to be normal, and some Aspies don't seem too happy either. Of course, telling someone you have Asperger's too soon will of course make that person run for the hills.
2. Women don't care what your intentions really are, because what they perceive your intentions to be will influence how they feel. At this point how they feel will likely never change no matter what you say or do.
3. They don't want someone that shows a total lack of regard and respect for women. Aspie males on the site seem to indicate (including myself) that they have a lack of trust for women based on previous dating history and from being bullied. Some (like me when I was younger) may end up taking this frustration out on the next one. Furthermore, I have noticed that some nice men (NT and Aspies) have severe entitlement issues and believe that women should be grateful to have someone like them in their presence. This is pretty off putting to a woman.
The entitlement issues seem to come from younger and more youthful aspies and I have been there myself. Once you hit your mid-twenties, this entitlement issue may change to some deeper, more complex issue if you have not fixed this already.
4. Experience matters. It seems to be common knowledge that women want a man with experience in relationships and in sex. It doesn't help now when some women are now categorizing the 30-40 year old virgins as undeserving of love. I am not a virgin myself, but I have only had sex enough times to count on one hand and I can assure you that each time was not with the same woman. If experience mattering holds any merit, I will never have a relationship and will likely never have sex again. I have found a lot of aspies on the website have never had sex either and the age varies between users.
5. Confidence- Need I say anymore. It's all in how you walk, and talk and this seems exciting to all women.
6. Women have little to no patience for people like us. There are many reasons why, but let's talk affection for a minute. Affection from an Aspie seems forced and unnatural unless it is learned. This may seem harsh to say, but a woman likes natural chemistry and a women won't stick around if affection seems forced.
Now back to me. My dating experience has been horrible to say the least. I rarely, if ever, get past the first date and I have had plenty of those. I have not been on a date in the last four months however and I have had no desire for it recently. I just got sick of the same old shit. The last couple of dates I went on, I made absolutely no effort at all because I just didn't care for it anymore. The last time I made any effort, I actually got a second date (or more) out of it. My lack of effort is the biggest reason why I don't get past first dates anyway now that I think about it. I guess if I were to chose to date again, which will likely be never, I would have to put effort into the first date and then learn from there how to treat future dates afterwards.
I also remember the last time I felt truly happy with who I was. I wasn't thinking about dating any women at all and I did not care for any attention. I never forced anything and I never asked for any dates, nor did anyone ask me out on a date. I would go out with friends and just drink, and sometimes dance and I would not be worried about who wanted to dance with me and I would not think about it. I would hang out with friends and just have conversations about whatever crossed my mind. I would hear their pointless banter on who it is they are dating and whether they liked them or not. I minded my own damn business and so did other people. There were some connections made, but nothing overly emotional. I was at my happiest, able to communicate what I wanted and didn't want. I felt like I commanded some respect. Furthermore, I was a very goal oriented person and dating was always at the back of my mind and didn't often come up in the way I was thinking. It seemed easier to make friends this way.
To a degree, I have become superficial because the emotions of dating and relationships are too complex for me to fully understand. I can go ahead and try it out, but I know that I have nothing to offer anyone. I have got a lot to offer myself, and that is my mind, body and spirit. My mind knows that it is best clear headed. I have more often than not found that hard when dating people or attempting a relationship with someone.
October 5 2012- I had written the above paragpraphs over the course of the summer. I have since dated someone and my emotions seem to change each day as to how I feel about it. I now am beginning to truly understand why it is so difficult for a potential partner to accept us for who we really are. I always feel afraid she will walk away because she can't take how different I am anymore. I am always afraid I will do something so awful that she will be hurt. I always feel afraid of the commitment aspect because I am in unfamiliar territory. I am always afraid because I think she will see the obsessive side of me and it will scare her. I am always afraid that she will find something she thinks will be better because I am too different. Bottom line, I am always afraid of something. These fears are often unfounded. I guess I am used to being so alone and being somewhat free that I am just not used to someone actually showing some feelings towards me. The train of thought would have to be fixed if I were to be successful with her or anyone else for that matter.
Hi Mike,
ReplyDeleteI couldn't help but respond because I'm an NT gal with an Aspie guy.
I wanted to share a bit of my insights to show you that you might not want to paint us all with the same brush.
I've learned a ton about myself and him through this whole process. One of the things is that I'm the one who is most often lacking empathy. He often says "why can't you just let me be me?" I'm working on it.
Because the thing is- I love the guy. Who he is - quirky, eccentric, focused, obsessive/passionate, even at times a bit hypochondriac (he admits himself). I don't mind as long as we get our hikes in together. He makes me laugh and think every single day.
Things get bumpy when I feel him cooling off or getting formal or limiting with me. That's when I tend to get a bit bristly. This makes it impossible for him to approach me (he's told me). What I really want is a hug or a gesture in my direction but because I'm feeling raw and insecure it's the hardest time to ask for it directly. Yet I know that that's what I have to do. And if I did, he would do what I ask of him- gladly. It's such a horrible cycle. I'm working on it. I remember the many many gooey thoughtful moments that override these. I try to think not to take things personally and just communicate. But it's hard. We're all human.
Sometimes I come to these blogs for perspective. I don't expect answers. I know my guy is unique & I need to talk with him. But it helps me with empathy. Yours has been a huge source of support & insight.
So I'm posting to thank you and to remind you that you have tons to offer. (Glad to see your addendum). Like my guy, you seem interesting, highly introspective, self-aware, confident and extremely bright. There are lots of women out there who not only value these qualities but have some of them themselves. Or are at least working on them. ;) cheers and thanks again, Jerry
Hello Jerry, thank you for the comment. I had to read this blog again to read what I had written. But ultimately, I had to learn this from dating multiple women in the last year when it came to empathy:
ReplyDeleteThere are two different types of empathy as you may be discovering with your Aspie Partner. The first kind is emotional empathy and that is what your partner is likely to have and what you feel you may be lacking in.
The other type of empathy is more cognitive and logical (common sense if you must). This type of empathy is knowing what to say and do in a given situation. The Aspie often displays a lack of knowledge or comes across as cold and offensive in this situation. This is what bothers most women the most from what I have found. Most simply will not tolerate a lack of cognitive empathy from what I have seen. The impact of the situation is likely to affect the decision making process of the person that feels hurt. As a result, some might find it hard to listen to what the intended effect was.
What I had learned from this is that a lot of the women I had dated may not have had high self-esteem or were insecure. Some were simply unwilling to accept the Aspie parts and may have expected me to be closer to what they considered normal. I have actually found myself unwilling to make more of an effort with insecure or low self-esteem types because I had to learn things for my own, so I kind of expect them to do the same and even try and guide some that way. Instead, I get lashed at for telling the truth. Might be the cognitive empathy at play as well.
Now, I have said in another blog that a lot of people seem to expect things from others without communicating it. Aspies are just as bad at this as well when they start to feel overwhelmed and need that time-out.
I'm not sure I find the "lacking in empathy" way of approaching things helpful. I think more in terms of what our defaults are- our natural habitat. Both of us are capable of making motions toward the other and trying. That - to me - is empathy. It's understanding what our natural propensities are and how these might be heightened in certain places- i.e. parties, his place or mine etc. Above all, communicating clearly and directly for both of us. Good practice period. Most of what we need to do is just good practice in any relationship. It just feels that there is greater urgency here because of our propensities. I feel that dating someone who moves so differently in the world than me is in many ways better because it forces honesty and clarity. I think of it like a cross-cultural relationship. ;)
ReplyDeleteYes. Cross cultural does make sense. I have stated in my little book that aspies such as me may often feel like a foreigner in their own country since everyone expects them to learn the home language without even attempting to understand where im coming from.
ReplyDeleteReading this all sums up all my thoughts feelings and experiences so well. Just wish I could find a lady much like J Jerry that takes the time to think understand and appreciate her mans perspective and ask else.
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